It’s hard to escape depression when it dominates your mind. The illness has many faces, but its most visible one is your own. You see it everywhere because you can’t stop thinking about what’s wrong with you.
The illness is filtering out everything that would disturb your isolation – like brighter feelings, hope, the reaching out of a loved one, self-confidence, the energy to connect with people. It keeps your mind roiling with your flops, dumb mistakes, broken relationships, and acid self-contempt.
When you’re well, you can lose yourself in the daily flow of living, but when you’re depressed you never lose yourself.
Depression’s Vivid Memories
Depression is supposed to interfere with your concentration and memory, but I think those symptoms apply mostly to external things, like trying to get your work done or listening to a friend.
When it comes to your internal world of depression, you’re all attention. Your memory for miseries is sharp. Every detail of recent and past experience is as vivid as if it were occurring at this moment.
You’re living in the flow of experience all right, but it’s a catalog of past sins and catastrophes. They’re alive in your sizzling gut, and it doesn’t matter that they’re all in the past and beyond your ability to change.
The intensity of the experience keeps them close. You’re busy with shame all the time. Escaping yourself seems impossible. You could probably swim the Atlantic with all the displaced energy that wears you down, body and soul.
Neural Maps of Depression
Daniel Siegel has a great way of putting this in Mindsight. He visualizes the neuroscience of awareness in terms of maps.
When visual cues are picked up by our senses, they travel across neural circuits that activate areas of the brain that put them together in pictures we can identify, patterns of sounds that take on meaning, smells, tastes and touches that trigger memories. But the brain doesn’t stop with individual perceptions. Continuing neural firing takes them to other areas of the brain where they’re put together in more complicated wholes. We see a child whom we recognize, understand relationships with people, respond to what we take in from them.
These are the maps that guide us through each moment of living.
When you’re depressed, all you have in mind is your me-map. It stands out in bold relief and full color. But you have minimal awareness of your connections with others. The you-map and the we-map are barely visible. You’re not making real contact with anyone else.
The We-Map
Having a we-map requires that many levels of perception in your brain are working well together. You’re sensitive to the sound of your partner’s voice, the tiny changes of expression in the eyes, the gestures of hands or posture, the tones of meaning in spoken words.
There’s a constant interchange of these signals between the two of you, and you’re responding to each other in many ways. The constant back-and-forth flow between two people creates a shared understanding.
The connection deepens and the sense of togetherness, of a “we” emerges. That map of connection, the we-map, generated by thousands of coordinated neural responses and interpretations of mindful feeling – all that is lost during deep depression. The signals can’t get through.
You can’t shift your awareness and brain functions to focus outside yourself.
When I’m depressed, life outside my mind and feelings seems to be happening on the other side of a soundproof glass wall. I watch it dumbly, detached, without feeling. All the while I’m obsessing about everything that’s burning in my mind.
If I react at all to the life around me, it’s only to feel yet more guilt or self-contempt for not being able to participate, to be a real-live human being.
Where You Are, Where You Want to Be
So what can you do to get your life back, to get out of that self-prison? Much of the advice on how to get better falls flat.
Get out there and do things. Action is the antidote to depression. It’s the only thing that breaks down the paralysis of isolation and loss of will. Lose yourself in a higher purpose, find your calling that will give meaning to your life and build hope in the future.
In other words, do all those things you can’t possibly do when you’re severely depressed. Whatever insight might lie behind such advice, the recommended programs often boil down to a set of directives that sound like platitudes.
Learning to Cope
Getting your life back isn’t so much a matter of ending depression altogether – though that blessed event can happen. For most people, it’s a problem of adapting to the reality of the illness.
I don’t want to suggest that you shouldn’t try to recover, but if you wait for total healing your life could collapse in the meantime. To begin with, you need to find ways to get through each day despite the illness.
When I’ve been depressed, getting through the day has been the biggest challenge I could handle. I usually started out with a belief that things would likely not go so well during the day ahead. After all, today was going to be a follow-up to yesterday, and that couldn’t have been much worse. So I convinced myself that I would have similar troubles this time around.
I tend to stay in this circuit of frustration as long as a serious episode lasts. My only hope is that I’ll finally heal and be done with the problem. Until then, I limp along.
I see the possibilities as all or nothing. Either I’ll continue in the misery of isolation and failure, or I’ll come out of depression completely healed. It’s harder to imagine that I’ll have to handle the day as well as I can while still preoccupied with depression.
That’s not my ultimate goal. Full recovery is what I want so that I can get my life back. But daily coping with its modest victories is the only place to begin.
For the time being I can’t escape self-confinement in depression, but I can try to make do for now, even if all I can manage is getting up and out the door. Or, as Therese Borchard once put it: I will be depressed outside today. Sometimes that feels like a great accomplishment.
How do you manage to get through a day when you’re depressed and can’t stop thinking how bad everything is?
For me a day of depression is like being on a stage in an empty theater. I know my lines. I can say them confidently and with conviction. I can emote. I know my marks, where to stand, where to look, and I know all the lines of all the other cast members. But no one is there — not on stage, not in the audience, not even in the building. I am going through it all alone. There will be no scene changes, no special lighting, no chorus or orchestral accompaniment. Then, of course, at the end of the production — no calls for an encore. Not even polite applause. Silence. Dust motes fall through the air unwavering.
I have made it through another day, there on the stage in the emptiness. Does anyone wonder why a depressed person thinks of suicide? Going through the words and the motions day after day and knowing it not just a rehearsal. This IS it. This IS opening night. This IS the matinee. And no one else attends.
I don’t want recognition for my talents, nor do I want my depression recognized. I don’t want the congratulations of friends or favorable reviews. I just want to be outside the theater where real life must be going on, where memorized lines and marks give way to spontaneity and the birds call out and the air smells like rain.
This is a really good description of what depression feels like. Even forcing friends and family inside the theatre to attend won’t help cause it feels fake and insincere. Leaving the theatre to the real world is theoretically doable but it requires so much energy that I do not have. Even when I manage to leave outside for a day or two, something in the theatre keeps dragging back inside like an spider web too difficult to escape. This makes future attempts to escape the theatre more difficult cause all of the prior failed attempts.
I have suffered with anxiety/panic and depression since a very yong age. After an exhausting and depressive season in life of trying to rescue an addict teen I succumbs to severe anxiety and panic. I chose to try medicine to help me. After years of feeling well and. Good about myself I weaned off of them. I suffered withdrawals yes but after a while I resumed to feel like my old self again. I have to say living in such a state is more difficult now that I know what it is like to feel well. I cant even work or be motivated to do nearly what I could when well.
So I must ask why we say no to anti depressant and try so hard to fight this endless battle alone?
“Get out there and do things. Action is the antidote to depression. It’s the only thing that breaks down the paralysis of isolation and loss of will. Lose yourself in a higher purpose, find your calling that will give meaning to your life and build hope in the future.” In other words, do all those things you can’t possibly do when you’re severely depressed. Whatever insight might lie behind such advice, the recommended programs often boil down to a set of directives that sound like platitudes
So right. I am sick of being told that the best way to solve depression is not being depressed. It is just such a stupid thing for people to say and totally lacks insight.
I also like your idea of the we-map and that feeling of being locked out. My personal belief is that chronic depression (ie someone who is basically always depressed) stems from trauma early in life which prevents the development of that we-map EVER. Personally the only time I have felt like what it might be like to have a we-map is back in my early 20s when I used to take LSD and would have this incredible warmth and peacefulness from a feeling of connection with the world and people around me. I have never experienced that otherwise. No feelings of love and never any intimate relationship in my life.
I believe that depression is the result of being taught, whether by actions or words, that we are unlovable, ugly, not good enough, incapable, or whatever ugliness another decides to unload on us. I also strongly believe that sexual abuse is almost always involved, whether the sufferer remembers the abuse or not.
With that foundation, how does one go about feeling better? What works and what doesn’t? I’m 54, have had two major depressive episodes, and most of the rest of my life has been defined by milder chronic depression, when not self-distracting in a destructive way. I’m functioning, but not very excited or hopeful about life or the future.
What works? Getting a dog? Moving to a sunny location? Doing charity work? Meds? If you’ve found something that works for you, please share.
I am only 24 years old. Since I can remember, I have suffered from severe depression and anxiety. My parents hated each other, belittled each other constantly, disrupting holidays and every day with their loud cursing and hateful arguments. As a child, as early as age 5 or 6, I would run my hands and wrists under hot tap water, while assuring myself that I “deserved” to feel pain or be punished.
I remember at age 12, walking through the mall with my family, believing that I would never be as happy as everyone else seemed to be. I would sneak into the bathroom in the middle of the night and cry silently, trying not to wake my family.
At age 14, my depression worsened dramatically. I confessed suicidal thoughts to a friend, and she told her mother, who told my mother. I was soon referred to a psychologist, who treated me with cognitive-behavioral therapy. I was valedictorian in high school, despite my severe depression. I would eat alone during lunch, or simply skip lunch altogether to cry silently in the bathroom stall. The smallest sights would send me spiraling downward – getting a ‘B’ in biology, not feeling as popular or as pretty as other girls in my high school.
I desperately wanted to feel desired and loved by anyone, and after a chain of failed romantic flings, my depression peaked again at age 19. In college, my depression finally interfered with my academic success, preventing me from getting out of bed to go to class or complete important assignments. My grades dropped and I stopped caring about striving for academic perfection. I would sneak off to my car to cry and scream as loudly as I could, doing this often.
My family, as I’ve grown to realize, also suffers from severe depression. My mother worked long hours and slept very little just to stay busy. My father was an alcoholic who blamed himself for his mother’s death when he was sixteen. He later became homeless for a time. My stepfather lost his mother as a child and his father was abusive. My mother and stepfather don’t sleep in the same bed, or in a bed at all – my mother sleeps on the couch with the dogs and my stepfather sleeps in a recliner in his office. They have four dogs and allow the dogs to urinate and defecate anywhere they please. Family no longer visits the home, except for an uncle who has also confessed to me that he once contemplated suicide. My twin brother has also admitted feeling suicidal to me, feeling that he is a failure in love and in life.
My family is supportive, but as I’ve just explained, they too suffer from their own severe depression so I hesitate to lean on them too heavily. I suffered from severe recurring panic attacks while attending nursing school. I would clutch at my chest, my blanket, my husband, whatever was near me, feeling as though I could not breathe and that I was certainly going to die. After graduating and getting a job as a nurse, my life appeared to be getting so much better. We bought our first home and it is beautiful. My husband and I both held steady careers that paid very well. We spoke about having a baby with excitement nearly every single day.
Life, though, has had other plans. My husband and I both face losing our jobs, possibly our home, and are facing an extremely expensive legal battle. I’m unsure whether or not I wanted to be married anymore. Once again, depression and anxiety have come to rule over my life. Night sweats, panic attacks, no appetite whatsoever, no interest in the things I once enjoyed. I’m afraid to leave my home, afraid to be in public, and afraid to socialize with most people. I often wonder if this is simply the kind of life I was always going to live – anxious, depressed, fearful. Even though I am young, I often wonder if it will ever get better than this, or if I will forever battle with what seems to be my normal state. I used to dream of having a baby and creating a family of my own – one that looked nothing like the life I had as a child. But now, I shudder to imagine being another depressed mother, and raising another depressed family. I don’t know what I want, if anything, anymore.
No one even knows I exist anymore. I sit alone in hell and fear homelessness constantly. It’s beyond major depression. Each breath is a miracle that wont last. Social isolation. I used to be an amazing person, now I won’t live for too long. There is no way out of the invisible bubble. People attack when they sense weirdness..this is unacceptable. You become a monster and no matter what you do, no matter how much you try, you can’t get help or escape the prison of social isolation and depression.
D.C., I feel the same, though I don’t have the homelessness fear you have. I am adopted (adopted as an infant, now 51 years old) and I’ve never really felt I’ve had anyone in my life really love me. I know the parents who raised me love me, but it’s always felt conditional, that is to say that they love me as long as I’m doing/being what works best for them. Most of the time that’s not a challenge, since I’m pretty typical, but even so it hurts knowing that if I step out of bounds the love will be gone. It’s unsurprising I’ve repeated the patterns of my childhood and married a man who is the same– zero tolerance if I’m sick, or tired, or troubled. You’re right, people sense it, and kick you when you’re down and no one helps. The people who should notice don’t, because they don’t care enough to notice and certainly don’t want to be inconvenienced if they do. I would kill myself today but I am afraid to botch it, become disabled, and then be unable to try again.
@Bonnie & DC, I have the same feelings as I was also adopted as a baby that I have never been loved and the care from my parents was conditional. I have never had a romantic relationship and didn’t even have sex from the age of 28 to 44.
People do kick you when you and therein lies the clue to survival for me personally at least – ANGER! Depression is the flip side of anger – it is suppressed anger. As we mature to express anger becomes riskier and riskier. However if you really are at bottom then it is worth adopting a “fuck the lot of you” attitude to provide a bit of energy for self preservation nad hopefully eventually improvement in life.
I like that Tim. Anger. Use it, like a sith lord lol. If we can channel our anger into exercise, be it at home, or outside in nature, or a gym, if we just channel it all into getting the body we’ve always dreamed of, I bet we’d shape up mentally too. Get a job as a personal trainer if anything, just for the money so that homelessness isn’t an issue, but seeing the potential life changing effects a body transformation can do for people being a personal trainer sounds great. I’d caution against using anger in any other way, only for exercise and self defense of course.
When i’m there in this world, it became the big trouble of my parents.Illegitimate child, others said that and that’s me. I always feeling sadness. I’ve never really felt I’ve had anyone in my life really love me too. Maybe some people trying to love me, but now they’ve surrender. My life is so complicated. For a several time i think “maybe it will be better if i never there”. Nobody really care about me. Im too selfish. Always feel envy to other that ever loved me. Now, i really disapointed them. Guilt follow me everywhere. I’m stuck. Even i have no job now.Making i have too free as a girl. Still young but hopeless. I hope my life could be better than now, i Hope i could pay for my sin. I hope for the better life and wanna try for one more time. Struggle
D.C. I realize your post is from 2 years ago, but I feel the same as you do. I don’t know that I can find a way to not feel this way. People do not respond well to me anymore and that’s even when I am being friendly, etc. People not only attack but just ignore you. I don’t trust how people are going to treat me or acknowledge I exist. I don’t trust my own judgements either. You are an amazing person still, just as I am and was. I think we both do not know how to live with this problem. I have worked on this problem for years and I believe it is getting worse just as my life circumstances are.
Thanks for the article. On one hand, it’s annoying when depression hits because I’ve got to make some adjustments to my expectations for the day. On the other hand, having depression is teaching me to be more patient with myself. I wouldn’t berate someone with chronic back pain if he/she suddenly had a flair up and couldn’t accomplish all the things planned for the day. So, why should I be so harsh on myself for having chronic depression? Instead of focusing all my efforts on stopping depression, I think it might be more fruitful for me to try planning ahead for the times when depression hits.
I have lived if you can call it that with severe bouts of depression since i was about 10. There has never been a positive diagnosis as far as bipolar is concerned but with the deep deep lows i experience at any time with no warning i believe i am bipolar. It has taken over my life driving most people away and destroying everything. I feel many times daily that death would relieve me of all my troubles and pain. The problem being that all my failed treatments have left me unable to end it all because they enforce the stigma of such actions with comments tat it is selfish to do so. This leaves me more guilty about my thoughts mixed with hate for myself and my life. They have just made the whole situation worse and i put everyone and everything before myself. I feel dead inside and out. Like a walking corpse. Every day i wake up disappointed that i had done so. I face living hell every day with no sign of hope or escape. Holidays christmas and birthday make me more depressed and i tell people not to get me presents and cards as i feel guilty for receiving them. I see no hope or way out
Michael,
You are valuable even if you don’t feel like it. We must train ourselves to not believe everything we think. You haven’t had your breakthrough yet but don’t give up and don’t hate yourself. We talk so negative to ourselves it is no wonder we feel so hopeless.
Most times when we are down we isolate ourselves,being alone is not good. I find that when I volunteer, it shows me there are people or pets or whatever that need me and my abilities. regardless of how insignificant I think they are. Visit the veterans, or the childrens cancenter,or a animal shelter, homeless shelter etc. You will see you value and perhaps find your purpose. You were fearfully and wonderfully made says God. The enemy comes to steal your joy and destroy your life. I know you will rise above this. There is a song by Nicole Nordemen called “even then” that helps me. Music helps because you can’t talk to yourself while your singing.????
A problem shared is a problem halved so they say.
Since 3 years I’ve been bi-polar. Since I made the worst decision of my life to leave my ex husband. He was my support my anchor my life, we met young and I followed him to Switzerland. Amazing life amazing guy. Did everything to make me happy, I suffered from depression and bulimaia at that point.
He would make me feel better. I then wanted to find my own passion which at that time was yoga. I became obsessed I thought it was the cure I thought if I just did everything they said I would be cured from the thoughts. I got so extreme I pushed my husband away forced the divorce on him from one day to the next ran off. I was so evil I thought he was the cause but he was a big cure. I only woke up to the fact 6months later when I couldn’t move and the memory’s came but with a different perspective. I was in shock.
Then I lost my job, my friends another job, disconnected with my family (living away 10 years) and can’t motivate myself to walk. Just in bed reading different ways to die.
I can’t escape the thoughts of the past and the judgment I have of people and myself every waking second. The anxiety the hatered the disgust.
Oh and but he way to top it all for the past three years I have been extrem bi polar meaning in this small town of zurich – for the times I was high I went to every opening, every bar all the scene places thinking I was one of them. Telling fabrications of what I do for a living. So everyone knows me and sees me out thinking I’m a high flier and I really believed it.
However this is the last time I want to wake up to the truth which is I left my husband through a selfish craze of wanting to rid these thoughts forever – realizing he helped it and kept me safe in a rythm with a roof over my head and loved me for WHO I was.
No knee ever will again I know that, all I do now is wait for another reason to Kill myself, I don’t have any hobbies, interests as I just copied others all my life & by at least copying my ex I was on a good path (saving buying a house stable etc) I will never meet anyone like him nor will I find a job as nice as the one I has or find friends like I had.
So what is the point? Can I just not give my organs do euthanasia it’s torture. Please I wish we could all just get together and help each other in some way. I’m sorry if my troubles aren’t as bad but it’s my brain everything is a comparison to him and he was one of these no problem can do anything sport work stress resilient clergy financially and the kindest guy you would ever meet. So I thought I had ally to compare and be sad about before the fact is I just never appreciated.
I also feel your pain. I am also bi-polar and having a hard time getting thru the year, month, day, and hour. Especially this hour. You are not alone.
I have a Postit note on my desk that I read every hour. It says “You will be ok, even if you don’t feel ok all the time”. So, be kind to yourself. As long as you stay alive, this is true. We need to believe this.
Did you lose your job because of the depression?
This site feels like words words words. Xanax addiction and HORRIBLE withdrawals, Crohn’s disease, twenty cavities and no money, struggling to pay bills, struggling to eat every month…just lost my grandmother who was like a mother. My mother doesn’t give a shit about me. I am 51 and have failed to make any money or have a real relationship. Now type a clever strategy to keep me from thinking about suicide every day.
Johnny I hear your pain. Life is excruciatingly painful. Mine too. We seem to be at the bottom of a deep black pit with no way out. And yet there must be a way out. Just because we are here means we count for something. We have worth and value because we didn’t get here by ourselves or by accident. We have been called into existence by a power greater than ourselves and surely we will not be abandoned in our hour of need. I call on my Maker as often as I can and while suicidal like you I am still here. That must mean something. My Maker has not abandoned me and yours does not abandon you either. Just keep going. Keep reaching out for help. Leaving this life seems so attractive when life is so bad…but what if it is worse on the other side and there is no way back… So we have no choice but to keep going… Besides there are many many others like us who also don’t want to be here but are…If only we could all band together and keep one another going… I will remember you Johnny and ask my higher Power to encourage you and reveal to you how precious unique and unreplaceable you are…there is no-one else on the planet with your personality or talent or make-up. You are a one off and cannot be photocopied…stay here Johnny and trust that it will be OK…
That is extremely kind of you. My very best to you as well. Let’s try to hang on and hope there is a blessing waiting for us. My very best Ann, JE
Johnny. I am in the same boat. A lifetime of severe depression and the last 4.5 years of it unbearable. Don’t know how to hang on anymore. Lost all friends and family now. What to do? It’s just not lifting like it used to. No treatment of any kind ever worked. If you are better off than me (all readers) thank God for that. If anyone knows of a site or email service to make contact, let me know. I never did find one.
To alI those who have taken time to write your true feelings, at the expense of sounding even more pathetic than we already feel, i sincerely THANK you. It is 12:07 am and I can’t sleep AGAIN. To Johnny i say try being 61 and In the condition you describe yourself in. Yes there is always someone worse off than we are and that FACT brings us little to no comfort, only more guilt for it not
mattering to us…we are indeed in a pathetic state BUT I find some comfort in the “WE” part of this statement. You all have and are helping me this very minute to COPE with all you
describe. Thanks to you and Joan for your honest insites and for shareing your pain. I am being serious. To me, Standing together in our misery “feels” better than
standing alone. My favorite saying is ” with breath there’s hope” PLEASE don’t ANYONE give up because if nothing more, I need you! Thanks.
Finally, someone who thinks that this horror we live with might be the truth rather than the exception in our view of the world’s cruelties. I don’t believe in God, I’ve found Buddhism to help me the most, but people are evil and I think that we must recognize that and then seek to change our behaviors and outlook.
Making children into soldiers in an army is the perfect example. That is nothing but evil, but if enough people think it’s okay, then it is accepted as normal.
Thank you for this blog. I’m 67, married 48 years, and still feel totally alone.
Been suffering from depression since i was a kid.nobody understands me especially my family.they label me as crazy,different from them & insensitive. 10 yrs ago, i was diagnosed with this disease called depression.i am currently on drugs and they do help sometimes.but i want to stop using & depending on them and lead a normal life. i have a daughter aged 9 yrs and she is the one i live for,after separating from her mother 2 yrs ago. life sometimes feels empty and i nearly give up,but i live on hope,that tomorrow will be a better day.any help will be welcome.
I won’t bore everyone with my own story other than to say I’m a professional who works in cognitive science. It’s known that there are lifelong neurological variations in brain physiology and anatomy that appear associated with suicidal ideation. When sufficient life stressors interact with certain brain conformations, suicide risks seem to rise, assuming individuals are able to act on their thoughts. But it is also true that other natural neurological and cognitive variations are associated with other societally variably-valued outcomes, like the propensity for mathematical facility, or exceptional artistic capacity, or… Yet we don’t pathologize other temperaments and worldviews. Maybe we do with the predilection for suicidal ideation because of the apparent statistical association with depression, which mental health pundits consider to be a disease. I wonder, though, why depression must be a disease. It seems at least as likely that it involves a natural variation in perceiving and evaluating the world–a variation that happens to be a minority representation of ways of seeing the world because, perhaps, of evolutionary survival and gene frequencies dynamics.
In the absence of any empirical evidence of objective good or bad, free minds are likely to judge life differently–some perceiving it to be an overall good thing, and others perceiving it to be an overall bad thing. Just because most people share certain value judgments doesn’t logically translate into those judgments being objectively true. We humans are mortal animals. We’re all going to die. I think there is a case to be made for otherwise cogent adults being entitled to act on their own evaluations of life in general, their own lives in particular, and their decisions about whether they wish to continue existing, the variations in neural structure and physiology and (possibly) consequential life outlooks notwithstanding.
It is one thing for modern medicine and cognitive science to demonstrate variations in genes and phenotypes associated with certain feelings and ways of thinking. And in the interest of personal autonomy, it’s also understandable that, ultimately, if these associations are well clarified, causation can be established, and effective medical tools engineered, citizens might be offered the options of possible mind-altering interventions. However, it would be an affront to personal freedom if, in the spirit of existing legal privileges allowing the forcible detention of people who choose to take their own lives, “treatment” is eventually imposed on adult private citizens, regardless our will.
I am not suicidal today. However, I want the freedom, regardless the mechanics underlying my feelings and thoughts, to be able to determine the when and how of my own inevitable death. There may come a time when I cannot cope any longer with life challenges. When that happens, I do not want others standing in my way of doing for myself what I deem best, justified only on the basis of their moral evaluations.
Jesus Tom are you serious?! You obviously dont suffer from True depression…true being not of the temporary external types all humans experience like when a loved one dies or one goes thru a divorce or things like that but rather the type that most on this these post are describing. To suggest that we that suffer with true or clinical depression are simply a minority “variation” due to evolutionary or purely learned traits is really very unloving and small minded in my opinion. I suspect that you frame yourself as an “intellectual” and that your higher learning has lead you astray. Your denying the reality of the feelings of people who dont WANT TO DIE but don’t want to live in the painful state we find ourselves in. That is obvious to most, a real medical problem that is just recently getting the empirical evidence you say is lacking. Lots of reasons why it’s taken this long to even get to where they are in science and treatments. You sound like the people who think global warming
Is not really a problem but rather just a weather cycle of sorts. Regardless, I’m surprised they allowed your comment in since these post are more about people that recognize something is wrong with them and are crying out for help, not looking for […] intellectual blabbering about the lack of imperial study’s and such. As far as a persons right to choose to die with dignity in the case of legitimate impending death I would agree, HOWEVER that’s not what we are talking about here. Its not just loving or ok to stand by and allow much less advocate the suicide of somebody with depression! Surely you can see the difference can’t you? Remember too that suicide of a depressed person doesn’t only affect that person. In this case “we are our brothers keepers” or should be.
Also I might have been out of line on that […] comment.lol…please, prove me wrong. Sincerely.
Charlie, I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt that, despite your ad hominem, you do not mean to attack me in particular, but rather defend those suffering from depression against various common social depredations. So I’ll respond respectfully–a courtesy I wish you’d extended to me.
1) You cannot draw a valid conclusion about anyone’s experience with depression based on her/his verifiable claims about the lack of a strong cellular and biomolecular causal model of depression. Nor can you conclude what history someone has with depression based on her/his worldview regarding the value of life and personal autonomy in end of life decision-making. Considering the lack of civility and courtesy you feel comfortable exhibiting to someone who you seem to believe expresses opinions about something he appears never to have experienced, concluding on others’ mental frameworks and value systems is egregiously hypocritical.
2) My comments about human genetic and mood variations derive from empirical evidence you can find for free in PubMed and in other professional journals. It’s your prerogative to disagree, but minimally inspect the evidence before dismissing assertions.
3) Your claims about what “is loving” are irrelevant, no disrespect meant. Those aren’t objective statements, but rather opinions and feelings. They have no place in arguments on policy where restricting others’ freedoms to decide on their own lives and bodies is concerned.
4) As for whom else a suicide affects, again, that is at best a tangential consideration. Just as we don’t force people to remain married despite the often catastrophic effects of infidelity or divorce on spouses, children, and communities out of recognition of the greater evaluative freedom of the individual to decide on his own life, forcing a human being who consistently expresses a wish not to be alive is abusive and inhumane, “good intentions” notwithstanding. Yes, that is also a personal judgment, but in erring on the side of imposing others’ will on another or accepting a personal judgment about one’s own life others may not agree with, the latter is more aligned with the primacy of personal autonomy. You may argue there are cases in which non-criminal, otherwise cogent adults should be restricted regarding their own bodies. We will have to disagree there.
5) People may not want to die, but they do want a cessation of suffering. I agree that if society can provide the latter, this is a good thing, and that ideally people should not want to seek out death. However, there are very many reasons someone may find life chronically doesn’t supply her/his needs (let alone reasonable desires). If such a person has faithfully sought out professional intervention (if this is affordable and available) but it has over long stretches of time failed, forcing her/him to remain in a state of suffering–as only the individual can determine–is cruel.
6) Your stipulations about when it is appropriate for another human being to pursue something with her own body, his own life, are utterly irrelevant, again. You own only yourself. Decide for yourself what you consider appropriate for you and allow others the same freedoms.
7) You claim we are our brothers’ keepers. It’s hard to believe, given history and current events, one would seriously make that claim. If we were our brothers’ keepers, I am confident far fewer human beings would seek out death in the first place. Assuming, of course, our inclinations to “keep” were universally benign and agreeable. Instead, our world is surfeited with myriad ills–unemployment, social disequities, racism, sexism, ageism… People are abandoned by the millions to isolation and dereliction. Mother Teresa said loneliness is the world’s greatest poverty. Global estimates of loneliness show alarming increases. And these are just a few reasons people suffer terribly, while academicians and professional psychologists publish papers and the lay talks about being “our brothers’ keepers.” Hypocrisy.
In fact, there is significant evidence from the biomedical community across the globe that very much depression results from the embedding of social experience. That is not to say depression isn’t real. The pain of depression activates the same neural circuitry as corporeal pain. Its experience is real. But clinical depression, despite the narrative the pharmaceutical and professional psychology communities tout, has as yet no cohesive bimolecular causal model, and much of the published literature on psychotropic drug effectiveness, as revealed in several comprehensive reviews over the past decade, suffers from a publication bias that in medicine would have been scandalous but in psychiatry/psychology somehow survived for decades–begging the question just what legitimate cellular pathology could be masked easily by hiding data. If you have evidence to the contrary, please share it.
I don’t mean to trigger bad feelings, but where psychology purports to pronounce on physiology (“disease”), it should not exist outside the bounds of rigorous empirical evidence (cognitive neurosciences…), including evidence for neurological causation–not just statistical associational arguments.
One final point: discovering truth–society in general–is not served by censoring respectful dialog. You may find it surprising my comments haven’t been taken down. While you may disagree with my position, I hope you can respect the freedom to dissent and to draw attention to other perspectives.
Sorry for my many typos. It’s late here. Best to you.
Tom…I’m really not feeling well enough to banter back and forth with you and your Ill logic on several subjects…yes I realize that that is MY opinion. If we were face to face or verbally able to banter I’m might bother to refute most of what you say. And yes if I did banter it would be for the benefit of those that have no doubt been offended(hurt)as was I, with your point of view BECAUSE anyone who says “feelings dont matter” is not someone I want to associate with […]. Your intellect has lead you astray or really more likely your pride. You think using big words makes you smart and better than others, that we simpeltons are ignorant and need your enlightenment. I for one dont. […] I have a feeling or would you rather me say…my life’s experience, has shown me that people like you can’t be taught anything of real value because you believe you already know it all. You may call that being un civil. I call it being strait. I don’t even have to ask you if you believe in a God to KNOW you dont. This to would be opening up a whole other(or is it “nother”) can of worms. I’m not in the mood for worms right now Tom. I don’t think I really have to worry to much about your “feeling” being hurt, maybe your pride, but then I believe seriously that your price NEEDS taken down a notch or 3. I guess my only real question is why you are on this form? … Are you looking for help?(i highly doubt it) are you looking to help depressed people with their depression? If you are, you are truly missing the Mark. … Anyway you helped me get tired enough to maybe get an hour of sleep so i guess I should THANK you for that. Its 4:25 am. I bid you fair well.( interesting expression).
Charlie, you are, like every other free citizen in our lovely United States of America, free not to associate with whomever you wish. You are also free to hold your opinions. However, an opinion is not a fact merely by dint of one holding to the opinion firmly.
Your repeated insults to me, I want to be frank with you, do not in the least hurt my feelings or deter my point of view. If it makes you feel better to speculate about others or insult them because they see the world differently from you, have at it. This is another freedom we all enjoy, though I think it a counterproductive way to dialog.
You feel I cannot “be taught anything of real value”? Putting aside the me here, suppose someone has extremely different values to yours, but she is a successful civil engineer who participates in building community infrastructures that serve millions, allowing people to survive to have the luxury of holding and philosophizing about different world views. Is it your position that she cannot “be taught anything of real value,” or that her engineering skills represent, what?, non-real value?
I am not trying to banter with you, but very many rational adults will take exception with that perspective, and more generally, with the perspective that there is a universal, objective “value” where evaluative judgments are concerned. If I am wrong–and I am just as open to being wrong here as I would be to being wrong about some empirical statement–then it should be a simple matter to provide non-emotion/personal-values driven evidence in support of a counter-thesis. What is the universal value that exists beyond individual or cultural or species perspective?
And finally, you betray your hand. You mention “God” in a discussion on values and individuals’ freedoms to decide about our own bodies and lives. I do not wish to offend anyone’s values or beliefs, however, religion has no place in deciding public policy in a culture that formally separates church and state, even if the former insinuates itself both subtly and directly in the latter. If you disagree, then there is nothing to discuss because you will have set the foundation of your arguments in direct, fundamental opposition to arguments which rely on objectivity and empiricism, to the extent possible, in forming legislation all citizens are bound by.
We disagree on these matters. That’s OK. I think it serves to build productive social dialog. I’m very sorry you feel the need to insult me to get your point across. Ad hominem not only weakens arguments, it can also dissuade some readers/listeners–which, I’d think from what you’ve written–you don’t wish to do.
Have a terrific 2017, Charlie.
To quote psychologist Larry Crabb…”Does our insistence that this life provide more satisfaction than it can and our determination to figure out some way to get it, lie beneath what we call psychological disorder?”
I think so. I sometimes wonder if we who suffer with depression are the “normal” people because we’re aware that things aren’t as they should be. God has rigged this world and this life so we cannot find true satisfaction in anything or anyone other than Him. I have suffered with depression my whole life and I find that when it’s worse is when my hope and expectations and focus are horizontal and not vertical. It’s a daily struggle.
There’s a book that’s helped me tremendously called The Pressures Off.
I want it to stop.. I’ve suffered with depression, anxiety, OCD, low self esteem and self worth my whole life. I think I have borderline personalty disorder. My childhood was challenging and I endured a lot of emotional neglect and abuse growing up. My parents deny it whenever I brought it up(especially my father who self loathes and hates himself) so I just stopped. I bottled it up and then would explode usually on my ex wife. I stopped talking to them for 6 years, got help and was doing well for awhile. Sadly, the depression got worse mainly because I have such a poor relationship with myself. I eventually pushed her away, lost my marriage, my dog and home. I’ve tried everything, GOD, pills, support groups, therapy and nothing seems to work. I have a business which is the only thing keeping me going but even that’s gotten hard. I see no end in sight and am giving up. I bought my first pack of cigs today and I’m almost 40! I think about death almost daily but I know deep down I don’t have the nerve to do it. I feel stuck and I can’t seem to let go. If I can’t accept myself, my mistakes, my sins and past then what’s the point I feel.
Hello Jeff, I understand completely what your going thru, and now looking back I still can’t believe why and how any of this happened. I’ve been dealing with agoraphobia for years and it has also destroyed my business for the last three years.I’ve decided to leave the prozac scene ( 20mgs /day over 25 years ) to try other medication.I hope you find a path that will help you, never give up,there’s a whole world out there to explore.
Best of luck to you , Joel
I can’t keep going on. 2 years of depression and anxiety and meds. No relief in sight. I am checking out
Hi Michele, I’ve never written to anyone on any of these sights but your comment hit me hard because I feel the EXACT Same way. How are you coping? I’m in bed right now trying to decide what to do. Minutes seem like hours.. Days. It never gets better. Thought maybe we could talk
Hi
I have been feeling better over the past month. I have good days and bad. I have gotten off most meds. Only on one now
Hey guys, i am young and ambitious but i lost a desire to study few weeks ago, i tried in many ways to handle it,, but I think is exceeding my power, and now I am approaching examinations and still studying and not studying is as same as synonyms please without your words i dead. Helllp
hi.
im dealing with that too
try not to be proud because you are not.
you dont give a shit about children
children reply and see you in that horrible place
lets deal with it
maybe thats true
you are all depressed with a corrious sense of lack of distraction or a perturbative act of being
being selfish doesn t always mean being happy
being selfish doesnt always mean being coperante
sorry i dont like you any more~
missing you doesnt mean i love you
missing you doesnt mean i have to coop
actually we have to coperate
your words doesnt flow in the right connection.
pricks will always be pricks
waking up to a life who is harder to understand doesnt mean you are being honest
do you understand
i tend to agree with my older friends
and i tend to serve them
feeding is nice
what about a pijama party?
my grandmother is just dead
you are out of my life
sorry guys
I’d love to know how to get through the day, I’m seeking out this advice as I type haha, I was diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder, Anxiety and OCD, so the depression hits me quite badly. Could be a trigger sometimes but mostly I wake up unable to move, even other personalities refuse to budge. I managed to quash the worst symptom a few years ago which was extreme impulse, used to make suicide attempts every month at one point. Once you stop that, you’re just left with the dark depression, knowing that you must stay here yet how do you get through that? If I didn’t have a child I would certainly be a goner. I wouldn’t say go have a child though haha. I find that if I let myself cry, yes it might go on for hours, but it feels like accepting what is really wrong with me. Strangely, it helps. I also force myself to make cups of teas when I can so I can sit in my little daze and feel like I’m at least doing something. The best thing to do, although I accept how hard it is, is to have a shower. Just feeling clean makes you feel alive. My therapist tries to encourage me to stand outside my back door and let the sun warm my forehead, she obviously wants me to sit in my garden but theres no way yet haha. Please let me know if anything has helped you so I can give them a try!! I wish you well 🙂
Walking helps me sometimes although I have to work at it since I am still trying to get strength back from my last few surgeries. (two on my neck and 3rd one on my back in 2014).
I have 2 grandsons and it helps when I’m around them.
I have other issues but I won’t go into them now.
Reading what you wrote helps me not to feel alone even though I know I’m not.
Lost my home, my husband, my mother And had a heart attack and open heart surgery . My husband was everything to me
,He was the so supportive and loving , good to me. Can’t get over him. Cry every night
I go to
Call ma
Mama and. Remember she’s gone. Eight years and things are worse. I’m too weak to work around the house.because of vascular disease.
I feel I’m in the same day to day as you, or similar. I don’t want to compare. We all struggle differently. The one line that stood out to me is, if you didn’t have a child, you’d be a goner. I truly believe it the only reason I’m still here. My kids are grown and gone, and feel as if everyone would be better if I was gone. Been through many health issues, which has been hard on everyone. Don’t think I could take my own life, but sometimes wish health or an accident would take me. I have tried to talk to many psychs and have pretty much tried every combo of meds, and no difference. Sometimes even showers are hard, even though I feel better after. Can I ask Kate, how did you get to the point of not doing feeling and thinking that anymore?? I pray since you have written this, you are doing amazing.
I feel the same about my daughter. If I didn’t have her I’d probably be gone by now.
I lost my mother due to a car accident at the age if 10. So, I know how hard it is to live life without my mother and refuse to put my still minor daughter through that.
I hate for her to have to see me struggle so hard!
My depression has become an everyday struggle now. I struggle to just get in the shower knowing if I can get there I’d feel better.
I want to wake up feeling good about the day.. I want to have the energy to get in the shower and start my day refreshed.. I want to work and to succeed financially in life as I always have done in the past..
I just don’t understand why I’m having such a hard time jumping that first hurdle. I know what I want in life. I know how to succeed. I know what I have to do to get there and feel better about life and myself.
My problem is I can’t get out of my own way. I’m the only one standing in my way of a successful and happy life for both me and my daughter.
What is stopping me from doing what I already know I have to do??
Desperately seeking answers!
Thank you
I want to end it all, I’m a single father with a personality that people hate. I hate…. I have no family no friends and the only reason I haven’t is because my 7 year old daughter. Tried pills and tried Jesus I am suffering
Hello Mike. I am dealing with depression myself. Dont ever talk about ending your life. Your daughter needs you to always be there
Seriously, Eduardo? Your advice to someone who’s severely depressed is, “Don’t ever talk about…”? Not talking about something doesn’t change the way we feel, nor address the roots–the causes–of problems. I’m sure you meant well, but I’m also sure that if someone had terminal cancer , your advice wouldn’t be, “Don’t ever give in to the biological process of cancer.” Do you think depression is a mere matter of choice? I’m not trying to be argumentative or rude. But honestly, man, telling people what to feel or what to say only exacerbates the problem by forcing them to hide what’s going on.
Tom, I couldn’t agree more. People are SO crass and opinionated when it comes to depression. I have met really unhelpful attitudes towards depression and suicidal wishes. People seem to take it so personally, instead of being there for you. I find I have to be really careful what I say to my partner as he finds it very difficult to deal with my depression. And of course, is when depression is so hideously bad, when anxiety joins in and makes every waking moment a living nightmare when you want to scream, cry, break things, etc, then of COURSE anyone even vaguely sensible will consider suicide, just as a way to make it all stop.
I’ve had cancer, and the one thing people kept on saying was that the most important thing was to Stay Positive. Why? I asked. Will Staying Positive kill the cancer off? What about all those people who’ve died from cancer? Was that their fault because they weren’t Positive enough? What about me? If I die from my cancer, is it my fault, because I wasn’t cheerful enough about it? – My point being in relation to what you said to Eduardo about not giving in to the biological process of cancer. People are, apparently, just bloody ignorant and selfish when it comes to dealing with long term chronic illness, mental or physical.
I think human beings are badly designed. There should be an Off button that we can press when we really have had enough. When we see a much loved pet suffering, we do the compassionate thing and have them put to sleep. With people, even though they may be suferring horribly, either mentally, emotionally, physically, financially, or some other way, our current barbaric “health” system insists on squeezing every last drop of life, of keeping the heart and lungs going long after any reasonable quality of life has left that person. Why??? What is the point of doing that? If someone did that to their dog, everyone would be in uproar about the cruelty involved.
Where I think life is especially cruel is that when you want to die, you can’t, and when you want to live, you die. I’d try switching my attitude in case that helped me die, but I haven’t got the energy to sustain it. I go to sleep every night hoping I won’t wake up. Then I wake up and think Fuck it, I’m still here. Why can’t we go when we want to?
People are left in agony of all types for decades sometimes, whilst their bodies refuse to die. Poor old Brian Rix is one example, and I was pleased for him to see just recently that he did die, after decades of wishing he would. He had a Down’s daughter, and her potential vulnerability made him vote against the assisted suicide bill in the House. He later changed his mind when he found himself in the situation where he could get no respite from his illness but his body continued to live, to breathe, to make his heart beat, despite destroying any ability he once had to enjoy life.
Even Dignitas insist that you must have a terminal illness before they will assist anyone’s suicide. Why can’t anyone access assisted suicide help/programmes with technically non-terminal illnesses? All illness, all life, is ultimately terminal. I don’t see why each person can’t choose the time and the manner of their leaving. I never thought I’d ever say anything like that, having seen Logan’s Run when I was a kid and thinking it so, so wrong, but I kind of see tge point of it now. Getting older, being permanently ill, disabled, disfigured, depressed, anxious, unable to support myself, just lying in bed day after day being a massive burden to my partner, well, it sucks aand I hate it. Every day I have to try and find ways of getting through yet another unwanted day. Every day I have to find a way to manage the deptession, the anxiety, the fear, the physical pain and nausea, my myriad of symptoms caused by the cancer treatments. I often wish the cancer had killed me off. Ironic, really – maybe I WAS too positive…….
I wish I was braver. It’s one thing to want to die because life is unbearable and shows no sign of improving, ever, but it’s quite another to actually take steps to kill yourself. Wanting to die is not the same thing as wanting to kill yourself. I don’t want to kill myself, I just want to stop feeling so awful, so exhausted, so ill, in pain, anxious and depressed.
Oh, and a good big fat part of it is that I am so chemically sensitive that all (and I mean all) antidepressants make me eventually worse, along with throwing up, massive migraines, weird thoughts, all that sort of stuff, so anyone who thinks that prescription drugs are the answer is just plain wrong, be ause I’ve been trying that path since sometime in the 1970’s. My system reacts badly to the vast majority of prescription drugs, antidepressants included. In fact, if I ever did really want to kill myself, taking anti d’s would probably change my brain chemistry enough to make me actively try it.
Does any of this long old rant make any sense?
Jane
PS Tom – I don’t believe that Eduardo can be suffering from any significant level of deptession otherwise he wouldn’t say such insensitive, thoughtless things. It’s the sort of nonsense that I hear from well-meaning people who are lucky enough to have never suferred from “endogenous” depression in their lives – as opposed to “reactive” depression that I think literally everyone goes through at some point.
Reactive depression is what hapoens when somethimg awful happens and you react to it. Endogenous depression is the dreadful stuff that comes from inside and doesn’t pass with time.
Jane.
Jane, thank you for being so honest, vulnerable, and thoughtful in what you shared. I agree with just about EVERYthing you wrote. First, yes, people can be breathtakingly insensitive in dealing with others’ illnesses. When I was younger, I thought I’d befriend mostly people who were experiencing or had experienced depression like me. Quickly I learned: (1) just because someone is her-/himself dealing with depression doesn’t mean at all that she/he will empathize with you regarding what you’re experiencing, and (2) usually, once someone has “overcome” her/his experience with life struggles (at least from my experiences), she/he forgets the immobilizing horrors and, on meeting you in a similar position, will lecture you about doing what they did to get better–even when there’s little evidence to support their conclusion that getting better resulted from X. And like you’ve said, people who’ve not experienced anything similar to what we have cannot empathize with us. So I’ve learned to keep my experiences to myself (except for the odd online post). All my personal relationships ended because, as you’ve said, again, I couldn’t be cheery enough as people needed me to be.
You’re also right that it’s “cruel” that people who want to live die, and many of us who want to leave life have to face the horror of violently ending our own lives, or failing (and suffering the consequences of) other methods. And like you said, many of us will just linger for decades, waiting, waiting, waiting, as things in our lives get objectively worse every year.
Again, you’re right that in addition to dealing with depression, many of us have to juggle crippling anxiety, often the result of the way our communities (including family) respond to the depressed us. But you’ll notice all the online experts tell us to seek community. Yeah, right.
Jane, I’m terribly sorry that in addition to ALL THAT, you’re also dealing with the very many challenges of a cancer diagnosis. And all of this for so long… You’re a soldier.
Do you ever wonder about the irrationality of our modern social system, in which we almost universally assert how others should be self sufficient, despite the dearth of jobs and other resources FOR everyone to become self sufficient–and our vilifying and casting out those who happen to lose the money game–yet we refuse to let those who recognize they’re not cut out for life to leave? We say, “Drop dead!” to people, and yet when some of those we’ve just dismissed as worthless say, “OK” back, we demand they stick around. Yes, you’re right that humans weren’t “designed” well…
Hi..can u please explain these two paragraph.i am confused totally.thanks in advance 😉
Learning to Cope
Getting your life back isn’t so much a matter of ending depression altogether – though that blessed event can happen. For most people, it’s a problem of adapting to the reality of the illness.
I don’t want to suggest that you shouldn’t try to recover, but if you wait for total healing your life could collapse in the meantime. To begin with, you need to find ways to get through each day despite the illness.
Eduardo, did you not read what Mike wrote? He said he wanted to end his life but hadn’t got any further than that BECAUSE of his daughter. “The only reason I haven’t is because [of] my 7 year old daughter.”
The pills he has tried aren’t to kill himself with, they’re to deal with his feelings, or he wouldn’t have put trying Jesus and the fact that he’s suferring all in the same sentence.
The man deserves a medal for wanting to kill himself and yet not doing so because of his daughter.
What made you so judgemental?
Mike, 1) how is it that real f*ckwits don’t have problems with themselves? You know, the kind that wouldn’t give a damn for their daughter’s future. 2) there’s only one person you’ll spent every moment of your life with – you, so regardless of your faults / failings/… ask yourself are you really worse than any one else? You’ve tried pills & you’ve tried Jesus? My wife has treatment resistant depression. She’s been going to psychiatrists for over 10 years – ie don’t give up fighting this. Her treatments change. Some she seems fine on, then gets changed off them because she isn’t achieving Breakthrough. Depression is ugly & it requires you to find a new perspective of what makes you successful / valuable. This process is blocked by you condemning yourself. Nor is it helped by the fact that it isn’t clear to others – such as if you had lost a leg & people could admire your courage for persisting despite the handicap. So a) please start by trying to be more understanding of yourself. Please try to get medical help. I’ve found doctors will usually dish out antidepressants willy nilly. Don’t be put off by their insensitivity when you ask for a referral. The inside out way that the treatment process works is that at a time when you most need help (to start counteracting depression), is the time when you most have to do this for yourself. At least motivate yourself by saying that you must do this for your daughter. Depression can put you into an eternal limbo & when / if you wake from it, you’ll be surprised how much of your life you’ve wasted. Obviously your daughter is special to you, be proud of her. Delight in her development & watch people approach you. Hope this helps
Mike, I am married with a young son, and also a personality that people evidently hate and that I hate. I take pills when I can for a numb. When I don’t have those I am on my knees talking to Jesus. I know that I should just stay on my knees talking to Jesus, but haven’t yet. Please don’t end it all. Please just accept it and keep trying Jesus and never giving up. A miracle might happen.
Hey Mike, I’m sorry you’re feeling like that. It’s not wrong to feel like that just because you have a child. It actually makes things worse when people tell you that, like you’re just supposed to get on with the pain? I’ve attempted suicide more than ten times, many different attempts. I have a young son. It does help to have a child to hold onto but when depression grips you feel like they’re better off. My sister was constantly told how selfish she was being depressed around her son and she ended up hanging herself. I am so angry at people who don’t know the effects of what they say. If you can get through the feeling of impulse to commit suicide, you can then deal with the issues ahead. All you can do is try, try hard. Actually having a child and feeling like that can spin you into a cycle of guilt which feeds suicidal thoughts, so please don’t let that happen. And don’t listen to nasty comments. Talk to people, kind people who understand. Ignore those that don’t. If you can, try see a good therapist. That’s what I’ve been doing. I hate myself too, but you’ve gotta try and repel it and force some arrogance into your personality even if it’s just pretend. I joke that I’m amazing but I know it’s a lie, it’s just a distraction to how I really feel. It’s better than struggling with the hate
I wish I could give you the answers Mike, I’ve struggled with those thoughts longer than I can remember. When people have physical illnesses that can be seen, they are talked about and sympathized, but deep dark depression can not be seen, nor is it understood or excepted. We are to feel weak, which escalates “our lives”. I pray that you are doing amazing since your posts. I wish there were places that groups of people could meet, to share, ask, cry, scream, or just be quiet with. There are so many groups for addicts, and I am grateful for that, having people I know committed to those and still doing great. Therapists are hard for me, I would love for them to say they feel the same way. Anyway Mike, I do wish you well. Shell
Why do you hate yourself? Why do you think / assume everyone hates your personality. That is the depression talking , its part of the disease , the way self denial is part of alcoholism. Your daughter loves you and down’t hate you. There is unconditional love. This stuff is so hard to deal with I deal with / challenge myself every day about why I have become isolated and lost friends and am distant from my only remaining family. I didn’t have a child, I am alone. But challenge your thoughts you must because you are not what you think. This is the mind and all its glorious negativity but thoughts can be changed. We can learn to become mindful and present and learn to spot the damaging harmful thoughts . But you need to start with a teacher of mindfulness practice and a group that will offer support. I found that I forget really easily about the coping strategies I learned in mindfulness but thee are techniques that can help. Neuroscience is only just catching on to what Buddhism has been teaching for thousands of years. We can tame this mind of ours. But it takes work. Helping others also helps me feel better. Just writing this which I hope is helpful is making me feel lighter and more positive. Please look into it.
I think im just about ready to give up myself. I am 34 and am going through a break up with the ONLY person Ive ever been with and we were together for 18 yrs. We have a son together via insemination (domestic partners) and she just left us both for an older woman 56yrs old. Its going on 2 yrs now and I cannot seem to let go of this relationship and get over this depression. I have tried everything my therapist has put out there including meds (which I feel made me worse and suicidal), group therapy, cognitive thinking exercises, etc. My son only has me because I moved here with my ex and her family was all we had and now we have no one since we broke up. she does not call for him, come see him, nothing, so all he has is me but I still dont want to me here. I feel like im being tortured to stay living bcuz i have a child and thats not fair. She just abandoned our family and doesnt care about either of our feelings. She is just free and has no responsibilities whatsoever. The holidays really crushed me and are continuing to take me overboard. I’d love nothing but for this pain to go away but each day is a struggle! Struggle to get up, struggle to get my son to school, struggle to get thru work, struggle to get home and do hw, feed, etc. for my son. Im exhausted and just want to end things. She will not come back but i feel thats the only thing that will make me better. I seriously think im done living…….I dont think anything else will help me 🙁
Do YOU think you are done living or does your mind think you are done living?Recognize they are not the same. You are the being typing out your thoughts, not the thoughts themselves which at this moment are being controlled by the dark entity known as depression. This is why there is slight relief in sharing your story, because YOU are fighting back against this negative energy that is trying to take full control of your thoughts. The more you recognize this the easier it becomes to shoo away. Continue the fight. Imagine a life with your son free of worry from your thoughts and tell your depression to fuck off every time you catch those negative thoughts arising.
OMG thank u so much for that.
You’re welcome. I know first hand that these thoughts will continue to creep back in and take over. Just know that EVERY time you catch them you are making progress towards being free of them. This is the elegant teaching of Eckhart Tolle that I’m referring to, not my own. All the best.
There’s a great teacher called Ram Das who said once a friend called him to tell him she was going to kill herself. He said : I don’t want to talk to this person I want to talk to the person that decided to pick up the phone and call me because that person is obviously the one who knows what is best for you. In other words. You are not your thoughts. And the only way to really experience that is to start doing some kind of mindfulness or meditation practice. Or listen to people like him , read Jack Kornfield The path with heart. These are all about taming our minds. If you are into Buddhism check out Sogyal Rinpoche – an amazing inspirational Tibetan Lama. As I write this it is reminding me to do this as well – every day. A few minutes. Just sit and watch your breath and watch your thoughts. Don’t follow them. Just go back to watch your breath. Then the thoughts will come and you go off with them , Just come back to your breath every time. Find more space around the thoughts. They will never stop. The point is not to stop them, By watching and engaging with your breath and body and everything that moves with the breath, you come away from the ever controlling mind and create some space around the thoughts – then hopefully you can start to remember. Aha there’s that negative thought about how awful I am … and you can dismiss it as false to fact. Challenge those thoughts. I am awful! Is that true? Is it just a thought? So say: I am having the thought that everyone hates me. Distance yourself. Re train. There’s a book called The Happiness Trap. Its very helpful for coping strategies. Believe in yourself and you own good heart.
I’m finished. Lost my job of 15 years 5 years ago, haven’t been able to get back into the field. At the same time, my Mother was put in a home with Alzheimers/dementia. She suffered for 2.5 years before passing, then right after my father died. Working making peanuts with a mortgage and debt. I just can’t go on anymore, there is no hope, no one cares about a 50 year old. It’s only a matter of time before I do something to end it all. I wish life was good again. I wish I was happy again. I wish I wish….it never ends. Depression is the worst thing to deal with and most people do not understand. My heart goes out to everyone who is suffering from this. Maybe in the after life, it will be better…I don’t know but I will miss everyone.
Allan,
I can relate to how you feel. I am doing my best to hold it together here at the age of 33. I have been praying to God thru Jesus to restore my life. When I get the means I will help other suffering because I have compassion and know what it feels like to feel hopeless. It is my faith in God to work miracles that keeps me going. I will pray for you. God bless. And it is true there is an afterlife there is a God.
Allan
At 50 years old I felt like you, now well into my 60s I still feel that way. That’s depression. We live with an illness. You will miss everyone and everyone will miss you. I am glad I did not check out years ago. I now know what I would have missed. The afterlife will come and it might suck worse than this.
My wife suffers from this most evil of evils and i know that even on her worst days, by offering unconditional love without judgement , she can at least delete the feelings of guilt that build up inside. Understand that things are not always as they seem! Good bad or worse. We can all see the rainbow but is it really there! The world is not going to be better without you, your here for a reason and that reason is still building . At 50 ( the new 27) everything awaits share your information helping others will help yourself no matter how simple or complex its the act .
Hello , I am new here , I need some help
how can I help my ex , he broke up with me due to his anger and depression , I send him all type the info , I push him to seek help and he accept it . but he left me 2 wks after treatment .now I just send him poems or links about information or information on this blog.
sometimes he get very angry and sometimes he don’t respond my texts , he said he need his space and peace. I wonder if you guys could guide me on how to approach , I told him I wouldn’t going to give up on him, that we will be ok and that I am here for him . ww talk on the phone for business and he is nice but when I tell him how much I love him or how much I miss him he get out of control with too much rage , I don’t know why he hate me that much … how can I take that pain from him? how or what can I say? is this normal ? please thank you
any response any word will help me
thank you
ELizabeth
He feels like he doesn’t deserve to be happy and he is trying to spare you the pain because he feels like it might be contagious. I think he is doing it because he feels like it’s in your best interest to get away from him while you still can. No matter how wrong he might be. He feels right. Hang in there. He might come around someday after he realizes it might be too late. Whether he is or not is up to you. Good luck.
Hi Elizabeth. He doesn’t hate you. He probably doesn’t like himself and whilst he struggles with his depression, he pushes all he loves away. He has to sort his journey/depression out alone. Don’t take it personally. Be there to support him when he does reach out. You seem to need him more than he needs you right now. My advice is to seek professional counselling to talk about how you are feeling and coping with the separation. Don’t send him poems and love notes, rather just let him know you are there if and when he is ready to reach out. My 21 year old daughter has severe depression and reacts badly to anti-depressants. it is so hard for me to sit back and watch her pain and not be able to save her from drowning. The mental health system is horrific and at best you can encourage and support and pray they work it out. God bless you Elizabeth.
thank you for the nice reply, once depression leave , do you think he will know I was even there ? I want him happy , its very hard seeing the person you love have pain , sometimes I feel I am responsible for it , because he will never treat nobody like his does me , I am who trigger his anger and I wish I could change who he feel, I do need to leave him alone , but what if if he needs someone ? omg I pray all day for him . sorry I am pathetic
Allan STOP! Let’s talk about this devil of a depression. My estranged mother once said,” when you think you’ve hit rock bottom” there’s only one place you can go and that is up. My 21 year old daughter suffers severe depression and I live with her struggle each day. It’s difficult watching her drown when I can’t help but support her through her darkness. My advice is simple: Reach out as you have done now by writing on this blog. It is hard but to feel alive and supported you need to trust people and let complete strangers who do not judge you. There is not an overnight solution, but with hope there is sunlight waiting. I have not had my family around for 11 years due to a family breakdown so noone talks to me including sisters, mum, and step-father. I just keep busy to distract my pain and now I’m emotionally numb. How much can one cry. It hirts so much as we were a close knit bunch. My daughter suffers as a result.
Back to you. At 50, you re hardly old. I’m 52. Life has more to offer and it aint all bad. You are in a dark place at the moment and that in turn will make you much stronger because you have been chosen to jump through hoops and huge challenges. Not your friends or neighbour but YOU. Feel privileged if anything and try little by little to change your negative mindset to tiny droplets of positive affirmations. Simple: step 1. Get out of bed and go to the mirror and tell yourself you love you and wrap your big, strong arms around and give yourself the biggest bear hug while saying how bloody fantastic you are. Step 2: Go back and sulk and be down for a bit.Permission granted. Step 3: Get back to that mirror and repeat step 1 but this time hug a little longer and scream how bloody much you love yourself. That’s day 1. Stay with us Allan. It’s uphill in tiny steps from here.
I have been in bed now for 2 years with this darkness called depression. Anxiety, isolation, panic attacks. I want to leave this world. I cannot handle my mind anymore. It hurts, it hurts so bad . I have already lost my job. I had a breakdown 2 years ago, pre suicide attempt. This time I drove myself to the ER. I have sufferred since a child. 4 attempts to date.
I am dying anyway. It hurts, everything hurts. This is the longest bout I have had. I am 55 now.
I am losing everything, my husband, my children, my career, now my home. Zero income. Dealing with the state is impossible.
I trying positive thought. My depression is so strong. I try. I try so hard it physically exhausts me. I just want to sleep.
I am so sad, so very sad.
Lost my family friends. I cant stand the torture anymore! It hurts! HELP!
My heart goes out to you and your suffering. I can so understand what you are going through and I want to tell you-you don’t deserve to go through this and already you are so so brave.
Depression is the most misunderstood and stigmatized condition in the world, so the emotional needs of many people like yourself get over looked.
Depression and anxiety are things I can really understand what they feel like as I live with them myself.
I like to help people who going through similar experiences as this in turn helps myself. I would like to reach out to you to forward me an email and I will do my best to help as best as you can. I am not religious-but hope is on the horizon for you, just when you thought it was not possible.
I know how hard it is to maintain positive thinking and how stubborn depression is. Send me an email if you wish. Kind Regards, Davina
I need to talk to you to get your help n guidance to cope with my dipression.
Is this an active thread? I am suffering from depression and its unbearable. I need someone to relate to.
I will talk.
interesting thoughts going though the comments on here. It seems depression gets worse and then better and then worse again. Its hard to have positive thoughts when we only see the bad. my husband tried for three years before he finally succeeded to end his life. I tried all I could to help him stay positive, often doing things he wanted that honestly made me feel ashamed, even to this day. while he was experiencing this depression, we had a full time business which ran 7 days a week 8am to 12pm, 2 small sons, and of course all life’s other details. I barely had time to sleep, and I was on constant watch to insure my husband was living, and of course to keep his depression hidden from the public. I had him in hospitals, tried different therapies, vacations etc. along with minimizing our sons exposure to his often volatile moods. Do I feel guility that I could not save him? Yes. But there is also relief that it is over, I could finally relax and not sleep with one eye open. My sons are grown now and they consider their father was a great person and talk fondly of him, which is as it should be. They remember some of what their father did but they were young, and I tried to keep them sheltered from the worst of it.
Now, 10 years later, I am suffering depression, have been since about a year after my husband died. Much of this I keep from my sons also, but of course, depression can be seen. I have never tried to commit sucide nor would I since I had to watch my husband do it. But depression is very real, having no desire to move forward, no attempt to find happiness, lost in business dealings, lost of standard of living, lost of friendliness until I have nothing left and I don’t really care. My sons figure I’m crazy, though I never hurt or put them in harms ways because of my depression but I don’t see them much but they are doing well for themselves and that is the main objective. They have a good positive start on their lives and I try to keep that in mind that I at least helped give them that. It hurts that they blame me for their harder lives and I only get a text message for my birthday and Christmas, but yet they honour their fathers memory each day, and remember only the good times with him and only bad times with me. Depression….it is not a joke, it’s real, it’s pain and it hurts every day to either try to sleep or get out of bed.
Sammy,
It’s sad to hear this. I’m not in depression as I mentioned in he previous reply. I just have a boyfriend who is in severe depression and he is also treatment resistant.
Yes there are some people who don’t understand depression and they cannot accept this. But please remember there are still a lot of people who are willing to know more about you, about the illness and try to understand you.
Let your sons know more about the illness or if it seems impossible for you, try to talk to people that do understand and u will find out you are not alone.
Hope you find your peace.
Thank you for your time. I have recently moved to be closer to my sister and her family and hoping to start over in this new city. Depression is a strange “illness” with many different symptoms, and of course feelings.
It’s a good start! But you should also be prepared that things will change or get better in a blink. But don’t lose hope or faith even things are not going smoothly.
I wish my boyfriend has the courage like you to start over. He is now in the states to receive treatment but his doctor just told him that doesn’t work on him. It’s so frustrating that he tried so many things but nth works. And I don’t even know how to stay with him and support him.
Anyway, good to know there is one more friend is trying to get better. And will get better.
Jess I feel your angst and frustration. My 21 year old has severe depression and a multiple of other symptoms that are a complex melting pot. I struggle daily as if I have depression. It began with my mother and I and our family breakdown 11 years ago. She struggles daily and talks of not wanting to be here and anger outbursts and indecisiveness, procrastination and much more. She has dropped out of uni and works 3 days a week. She needs the routine she says. She has only ever tried 2 anti-depressants that landed her in hospital both times with suicidal episodes. She has been in a program with disordered eating and now seeing a mood psychologist. I am alternative as far as meds go but certain nutrients havent worked either. I hope your partner tries as many therapies as he can. One will work. My friend says EMDR has helped her get through and I will try to find one who specialises for my daughter. Keep hoping.
I just dont care anymore.
Ann,
If you don’t mind I would love to talk to you. Please don’t give up. After reading so many materials online, I found out its so difficult to just ask the depressed one to have their old lives back. What they have to do is to find a new way to live, to go on. Ans please remember there are always people out there staying with you and support you.
All the best.
Hi Ann,
I just wanted to see how you were doing